Re: NX Stripped of it's East Anglia franchise « Result #3 Yesterday at 6:18pm »
I agree that the railways shouldn't be expected to be profitable. It's a lesson well understood in other countries that a rail network can be successfully run in spite of the need for heavy subsidy.
Unfortunately I think you may be a little naive about the way that the UK rail network is funded. A nationalised network has just two revenue streams; fares (and equivalent freight revenue) and taxation, both of which come directly from you and I via the Treasury and ticket sales. Private companies can raise money in a variety of different ways that are not available to the Government, such as private borrowing and, particularly in the case of the ROSCO's, the use of physical assets to raise capital. Removing the private sector in the belief that the pot of money would somehow grow because no-one is creaming off a profit would actually be counter-productive and could actually reduce the amount of funding available. The profit incentive is important in order to motivate the operators to drive for efficiency and to innovate.
The recession has had an effect, though probably not as big as many might have expected. As you say there has been a reduction in the take-up of first class tickets and in leisure travel generally. However, the TOC's have been canny enough to offer sufficient incentives to keep that side ticking over at an only marginally reduced level. However, as redundancies have bitten across other industries, the number of people commuting regularly and holding season tickets has gone down.
Is the rail network as a whole making a net profit...? I'm not entirely sure that it is. Just looking at the TOC's only tells part of the story because that just covers ticket sales and passenger journeys.
O L Leigh
I don't think the rail network has ever made a net profit, nor should it do. The railways are a public service and do need to be funded in one way shape or form by the public, either through fares or through taxes.
However you can't ignore the money that is removed from the railways in the form of company profits. Add up the individual company profits, plus the hidden profits of the ROSCO's. (Hidden in the sense that it's not front page news). Then add all the "costs" associalted with privitisation. All the people employed to appoint delay and thus cost. Then we have the hidden costs of, such as no standard design of rolling stock.
Also how has the current economic problem caused problems for the railways? Many companies are reporting passenger numbers as static or increasing, albeit at a slower rate. What HAS happened is many long distance operators have lost their First Class customers. But of course that could also be because the product they offered was expensive and poor quality.
It's alright for Ms Hold to have been allowed to ''reset the financial targets and the business plan'' and start with a clean slate and some petty cash to spend but it not alright if anyone else asks they be given the same opportunities due to the unprecedented financial situation.
It does indeed sound like the start of a "good news" story and one that probably won't be adequately dissected to get to the truth below. I can see it now. "Government succeeds where private enterprise fails" or somesuch.
My god, when I think about all the possible ramifications of this it makes my blood boil.
In fact I think reading Modern Railways is not good for my health since it only confirms that all the crazy ideas I had about how the railway is NOT being run are actually true and not figments of my imagination and lack of knowlage.
That's what IS frightening.
Ah yes. There's nothing like properly informed comment to keep one awake at night.
Joined: Jun 2002 Gender: Male Posts: 7,517 Location: Romford (the Essex one)
Re: NX Stripped of it's East Anglia franchise « Result #7 on Dec 2, 2009, 10:19pm »
Sorry, not meant in that context.
I found reading the comments made by Ms Holt and Lord Adonis, as reported by respected factual reporters, just unbelievable considering the current economic climate that has led the system to where it is now.
It's alright for Ms Hold to have been allowed to ''reset the financial targets and the business plan'' and start with a clean slate and some petty cash to spend but it not alright if anyone else asks they be given the same opportunities due to the unprecedented financial situation.
In fact I think reading Modern Railways is not good for my health since it only confirms that all the crazy ideas I had about how the railway is NOT being run are actually true and not figments of my imagination and lack of knowlage.
Re: NX Stripped of it's East Anglia franchise « Result #8 on Dec 2, 2009, 9:59pm »
Is the rail network as a whole making a net profit...? I'm not entirely sure that it is. Just looking at the TOC's only tells part of the story because that just covers ticket sales and passenger journeys.
Frightening; it all looks like a long term aim to re-nationalise IMHO.
Why is that idea frightening?
Just add up the millions of pounds profit, First, Stagecoach, NX make from their rail divisions. This money includes any subsidy paid back to the treasury. Isn't this profit better spent on the railways (or possibly back in the public purse) rather than in the pockets of the shareholders?
Joined: Jun 2002 Gender: Male Posts: 7,517 Location: Romford (the Essex one)
Re: NX Stripped of it's East Anglia franchise « Result #10 on Dec 2, 2009, 6:44pm »
The madness continues; it seems that Government seems to be in denial that there has even been a reccesion that has effected any of the franchises.
A quote by Lord Adonis reporeted in this months Modern Railways: '' Companies that have signed contracts are expected to honour them''
Interestingly the way I read things is that the rules they have now set for Ms Hold and company are not the same ball game at all and are of to spend our monies like water to prove they can run a railway.
Frightening; it all looks like a long term aim to re-nationalise IMHO.
But surely it's rule 1 of any big corporation that you always have enough margin to allow for things going horribly wrong (like a massive recession)
And how many big corporations have gone to the wall in the last two years...? The high street is certainly missing one or two big established retailers and quite a lot of other companies have/are being run close.
The problem is that a massive recession is something that cannot be predicted and is hard to prepare for even if you have some warning of it. You just can't build a business model based on an unpredictable event that happens perhaps once in every generation.
At the end of the day do you see any of the other TOCs going to the DfT with the begging bowl? No. They may not be paying as high a premium as NXEC were but they're not as big a company as NX is either, so it's all relative.
That is a nonsensical argument. Each operator's situation is unique.
NXEC ran into financial problems due to the recession, as did quite a few other TOC's. Whether or not NXEC were alone in making approaches to the Government has not been reported, so we shall never know. However, their plight was the worst because, as you rightly identify, their premium payments were the highest.
This in itself was part of the GNER legacy, as the DfT could not be seen to let East Coast go for less than GNER had it the second time around, and yet the Government were going to make it no easier for the franchisee to expand their services. Consequently, NXEC had to think up new ways of ensuring that the franchise remained profitable in spite of the almost punitive premium payments.
Now you can blame NX themselves for overbidding, but then, as I said, each bidder had to come in with a figure above what GNER agreed in order. If the Government had gone for a bidder pitching below this level there would have been outrage from GNER's competitors at the second re-franchising. In any case, if reports are to be believed, Arriva bid even higher than NX and yet were unsuccessful. If this is true, at some level the Government must have believed that the NX bid was viable at the point of awarding the franchise.
What finally did for NX was the wider consequences of the recession. The financial performance of certain sectors of the group's operations was poor, especially in the American school bus market. Likewise, once the banks put the squeeze onto borrowing, it became harder to service the debt incurred by buying more into the Spanish coach market. It was these two factors rather than any problems specific to NXEC that really put the "tin lid" onto things. NX Group found themselves in a position where drastic cost-cutting was required in order to improve their financial position so that they would qualify for more preferential terms in servicing their debts. Therefore, NXEC had to be cut loose.
I stand by my belief that NX played the government and tried to be greedy and lost. That's not saying the other TOCs aren't a bunch of profiteering <insert favourite rude word>, it's just saying that NX tried to be beggar and chooser simultaneously and have wound up losing both franchises.
I can see why you think that, but the facts don't support your position. The causes and effects have their origins in issues not directly related to the UK rail industry as a whole or the East Coast franchise specifically. NX Group has not profitted from it's involvement in East Coast and was resigned to losing the franchise once it was in default. However, to play politics and take other franchises away that are being run successfully offends my idea of what fair play should be about.
I'm no apologist for NX, but then nor am I much of a fan of any of their competitors. However, I am alarmed that the Government can play fast and loose with the rail network in such an unaccountable way. It really makes no difference to me whether or not NX retained the Greater Anglia franchise, but for the benefit of the system of privatised rail operation and the people it is supposed to be there for, I would have hoped that the Government could have at least stuck by their own rules. Franchise extensions should be decided on whether or not a franchisee meets certain performance indicators during the initial period of the franchise. That means service levels, investment in rolling stock and infrastructure, staffing and the like. If NXEA has met those performance indicators then there should be no reason why the franchise should not be extended.
Joined: Nov 2001 Gender: Male Posts: 762 Location: Loughbrorough, Leicestershire
Re: NX Stripped of it's East Anglia franchise « Result #13 on Dec 1, 2009, 8:46pm »
It's also easy to criticise NX for being a "bus company" but then so are most of the current franchises, and most of the old ones. First, Stagecoach, Arriva, Govia (Go Ahead and Keolis), National Express, Connex, all bus companies in one way or another. Virgin Rail are 49% owned by a bus company. Sea Containers, GB Rail and Serco/NedRailways (Northern) are the only recent operators that have not had bus links (discounting the early ones that were sold off to bus companies pretty early on, like GWT, Prism Rail and Northern Sprit).
Juniper, THE best train to and from Reading since slammers!
Joined: Oct 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 1,241 Location: A Well-Known Pizzeria
Re: NX Stripped of it's East Anglia franchise « Result #14 on Dec 1, 2009, 7:31pm »
But surely it's rule 1 of any big corporation that you always have enough margin to allow for things going horribly wrong (like a massive recession) - at the end of the day do you see any of the other TOCs going to the DfT with the begging bowl? No. They may not be paying as high a premium as NXEC were but they're not as big a company as NX is either, so it's all relative.
I stand by my belief that NX played the government and tried to be greedy and lost. That's not saying the other TOCs aren't a bunch of profiteering <insert favourite rude word>, it's just saying that NX tried to be beggar and chooser simultaneously and have wound up losing both franchises.
The East Coast franchise was a poisoned chalice from it's inception - It's probably the most lucrative route into london in terms of potential income, so as a result everyone bids on it. that pushes up the premiums that the potential franchisees have to pay teh government to get it until it hits the ridiculous levels which we saw with NX. I don't think GNER did so badly from the government - if the parent company hadn't gone bust (which was in no way related to GNER) they would still be operating the ECML today, no question. The problem was that a large bus operator blundered in and tried to turn the ECML into a no-frills budget operation to maximise profit, which backfired as, coupled with the recession and a general reduction in long-distance rail travel it turned customers away and NX coulnd't afford their premiums.
That's the popular view. Unfortunately it is not entirely correct.
GNER were indeed "torpedoed" by the DfT due to the underhand way in which they dealt with the need for additional paths. By leading GNER to believe that the paths would be theirs prior to the bid and then telling them that the paths were going to open access operators after the franchise had been re-awarded. GNER's downfall was that they calculated their premiums based on being awarded these extra paths and running the planned additional services. As this was no longer possible, the premiums were unsustainable, Sea Containers (who had financial worries of their own) were unable to come to GNER's aid and, consequently, they defaulted.
I happen not to believe that the refusal of a franchise extension for NXEA is warranted solely on the basis of default on NXEC. As I said before, the extension should be considered on the basis of the terms of the franchise agreement. I don't buy this whole line that the timing of the removal of the NXEC franchise was in order to force NX to be in breach of the NXEA franchise. How could NX's tenure on Greater Anglia be conditional on them holding East Coast when the East Coast wasn't awarded until some years after?
The Government are not entirely blameless in other areas either. They could have set the premium bar lower had they been so inclined and, where a bid reached that bar, decided the outcome on the basis of the promised level of service. But they didn't.
I honestly believe that NX never got a fair chance to show whether or not the maths behind their bid were sound. The economic downturn was unforeseeable and caught a lot of people on the hop. Yes NX were guilty of cost-cutting right across all of their businesses, but they were not alone in that.
I'm not particularly sure where this idea of NXEC being a "cut price no frills operator" comes from. I travelled to Newcastle and back in the last few weeks of NXEC's operation. Both trains I travelled on were packed and both had a buffet counter and trolley for standard class and an at-seat meal service throughout first class (not just in the restaurant car as was the case under Intercity). If you are referring to their promotional fares, why just pick on NXEC? Virign do it, as do many others. Showing what good value can be had on rail travel is a good way of getting bums on seats, and surely that has to be a good thing.
Juniper, THE best train to and from Reading since slammers!
Joined: Oct 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 1,241 Location: A Well-Known Pizzeria
Re: NX Stripped of it's East Anglia franchise « Result #16 on Dec 1, 2009, 1:10pm »
The East Coast franchise was a poisoned chalice from it's inception - It's probably the most lucrative route into london in terms of potential income, so as a result everyone bids on it. that pushes up the premiums that the potential franchisees have to pay teh government to get it until it hits the ridiculous levels which we saw with NX. I don't think GNER did so badly from the government - if the parent company hadn't gone bust (which was in no way related to GNER) they would still be operating the ECML today, no question. The problem was that a large bus operator blundered in and tried to turn the ECML into a no-frills budget operation to maximise profit, which backfired as, coupled with the recession and a general reduction in long-distance rail travel it turned customers away and NX coulnd't afford their premiums.
Now I'm not one to jump on the "railways should go back to government ownership" wagon - Indeed I think, looking at the figures, the railways are much better off privatised that they were under BR but; The current system of 7+3 year contracts and giving them to the person who will pays the most is wrong. 7 Years is not long enough to make any kind of investment for a company with no guarantee that they'll be the ones running the show when the investment is delivered. Just look at Chiltern: They were given a 20 year contract, and how many times do we hear grumblings about lack of investment and profiteering there?
The ultimate model for privatisation would be one with much fewer companies (I could narrow it down to 7: GW, Southern, East Coast and Anglia, West Coast and Midland, Cross Country, Scotland and Wales) on 20+10 year franchises with agreements that 25% of all profit must be paid to NR to invest in infrastructure.
Re: NX Stripped of it's East Anglia franchise « Result #17 on Nov 30, 2009, 10:27pm »
It might be logical but it's not the entire story.
The East Coast franchise has become a poisoned chalice. The Government wants more than it's pound of flesh from the franchisee and has not been honest with either of the last two incumbents. The Government rules are far from clear and it seems that NX were correct in that they could not be stripped of their other franchises because of cross-default. So instead the Government is taking advantage of the franchise extension to try and get back at NX. This is not providing a transport service and benefits no-one.
Joined: Apr 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 273 Location: Lufbra
Re: UK's newest railway station « Result #18 on Nov 30, 2009, 9:49pm »
The army don't muck about with time. The communist metro's were, from what I've read, built largely by the army and it resulted in very quick build times. Its a pity the army can't be charged with refurbishing the tube.
Joined: Apr 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 273 Location: Lufbra
Re: Tubelines - will they deliver the Jubilee Line « Result #19 on Nov 30, 2009, 9:44pm »
Perhaps if the northern line is split before the conversion, then it'll give a longer period to get everything done image-wise? The northern will need extra trains if the Battersea/Clapham extension goes ahead and the split ends in 30tph each central branch.
Juniper, THE best train to and from Reading since slammers!
Joined: Oct 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 1,241 Location: A Well-Known Pizzeria
Re: NX Stripped of it's East Anglia franchise « Result #20 on Nov 30, 2009, 8:08pm »
Parent Company goes to DfT with begging bowl, DfT nationalises one franchise, and denies 3 year performance-based extension on another.
At the end of the day, beggars can't be choosers - if they wanted to keep NXEA they should've thought longer and harder about going to the DfT with the begging bowl in the first place.
Re: NX Stripped of it's East Anglia franchise « Result #21 on Nov 30, 2009, 6:16pm »
The railways are now a political football.
Ask yourself this. If NXEA/c2c are working well, why is the DfT so keen to kick NX off the franchise? OK, so NXEC defaulted and therefore were stripped of the East Coast franchise. That's fair enough. But precisely what has this to do with NXEA/c2c? If it was all about providing a public service each franchise and franchisee would be looked at separately and their successes and failings judged in isolation.
If folk are keen to see NX take a kicking for the situation on East Coast, they have already taken a big financial hit in terms of the loss of their performance bonds, costs associated with the hand-over and loss of revenue. Re-franchising the Greater Anglia franchise in 2011 is not necessarily going to provide a better service and nor is it certain that the new franchisee will be any better than the old one.
I just wish the DfT would try and remember every now and then precisely what the UK rail network is for; by which I mean a transport network rather than a revenue stream.
You're running a public service - is it so bad that it's actually run for the public benefit? SO what is a modern idea? Screw the tax/ fare payer and instead pour my tax pounds straight into the pockets of large companies such as First/ National Express.....
Juniper, THE best train to and from Reading since slammers!
Joined: Oct 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 1,241 Location: A Well-Known Pizzeria
Re: UK's newest railway station « Result #23 on Nov 30, 2009, 4:48pm »
Well you have to think of the miles of red tape that have been ignored in the building of this new station - Things like Planning Permission (often difficult with railways), purchase of land, and probably several HSE rules have all been forgone to provide an emergency temporary service in rather expedient circumstances. That and it's a temporary structure - the few photos I've seen show it to be nothing more than scaffolding as opposed to a permanant one combine to make it very difficult to compare to 'normal' station works.
Re: NX Stripped of it's East Anglia franchise « Result #27 on Nov 30, 2009, 9:02am »
I think that the complexity of the local network has a greater impact that he individual operator. Many people don't like First, but FCC have done, until recently, a great job especially on the Great Northern - additional trains, new faster services.
People hate Virgin, but as Unhappybunny posts, Virgin do a better job than NX did on the East Coast.
First Great Western were much hated, although the problems were largely as a result of DfT requirments.
Stagecoach didn't have a great start on SWT and did people not prefer Midland Mainline to East Midlands?
At the end of the day, regardless who operates any franchise, it should be done for the benefit of the fare/ taxpayer and not the companies shareholders.
Re: Tubelines - will they deliver the Jubilee Line « Result #28 on Nov 30, 2009, 8:56am »
That isn't necessarily accurate. The conversion of the trains to TBTC went well. All that would be needed for the Northern is either a longer time period OR more trains being fitted at the same time - which MAY cause a problem.
Lessons learned from the Jubilee Line should be used on the Northern. Recently Tubelines have recruited additional staff working on the project, who - if Tubelines use their resources wisely - will simply move projects.
From what I've heard, it was mistakes, such as the wrong cable plus the PED's on the extension that have caused a lot of these delays. Neither need to be replicated on the Northern.
That be said, Tubelines have an obligation to provide the increased service/ reduced delay and if they don't then will be fined again.
Re: Tubelines - will they deliver the Jubilee Line « Result #30 on Nov 29, 2009, 11:54pm »
no matter what happens and no matter how much tubelines may or may not have learnt from theyre mistakes the northern will take a lifetime to finish. for starters they havent even finished the jubilee line yet and as wev'e just heard it's going to be delayed again. The northern has 106 trains and the jubilee only had (59?) to convert to ATO the northern has alot more route miles than the jubilee has the jubilee has already taken about 3 years to do so far so the northern will be alot more
Joined: Jan 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 1,618 Location: London Borough Of East London
Re: NX Stripped of it's East Anglia franchise « Result #31 on Nov 29, 2009, 3:26pm »
Wonder what the franchise will be called next time round? Since 2002 (seeing as NXEA expires in 2011) we've had:
First Great Eastern / WAGN / Anglia Railways / Stanstead Express One Railway / One Stanstead Express National Express East Anglia / National Express Stanstead Express
I don't know why they just don't keep the line names as they were but put an "operated by" bit afterwards. i.e.:
Joined: Jan 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 1,618 Location: London Borough Of East London
Re: Oyster PAYG agreed. « Result #32 on Nov 29, 2009, 3:18pm »
About bloody time I just came back from Hong Kong and used their Octopus card, great idea IMO so glad that we're at least getting the Oyster on NR in future
Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 92 Location: Way north-east of Epping
Re: Odd Picture in timetable... « Result #35 on Nov 28, 2009, 8:08pm »
if you dissect the pdf in illustrator, you'll find the black and white picture hidden underneath the coloured one. A neat precaution from the designer, is my guess. If they'd decided to go for a black and white booklet, repro would simply remove the colour image, and have the b&w one ready for printing right underneath
On page 4 of timetable 4 (Heartford East - Liverpool St.) there seems to be a hidden picture on a deeper layer of the page. Wonder what thats all about?
Joined: Jun 2003 Gender: Male Posts: 2,266 Location: Nottingham
Re: I met an interesting member of staff yesterday « Result #40 on Nov 27, 2009, 5:34pm »
To be honest, I think mainline railways stations should be completely open. Railway platforms are places you greet or say goodbye to friends and families.
Joined: Mar 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 2,419 Location: A long way past Verney Jnc.
sense of humour? « Result #41 on Nov 27, 2009, 1:08pm »
A man with a bald head and a wooden leg is invited to a Xmas fancy dress party. He doesn’t know what to wear to hide his head and his wooden leg, so he writes to a fancy dress company to explain his problem.
A few days later he receives a parcel with a note:
Dear Sir, Please find enclosed a Pirate’s outfit. The spotted handkerchief will cover your bald head and with your wooden leg you will be just right as a Pirate.
The man is offended that the outfit emphasizes his disability, so he writes a letter of complaint. A week passes and he receives another parcel and note:
Dear Sir, Sorry about the previous parcel. Please find enclosed a monk’s habit. The long robe will cover your wooden leg and with your bald head you will really look the part.
The man is really incandescent with rage now, because the company has gone from emphasizing his wooden leg to drawing attention to his bald head. So he writes a really strong letter of complaint. A few days later he gets a very small parcel from the company with the accompanying letter:
Dear Sir, Please find enclosed a tin of Golden Syrup.We suggest you pour the tin of Golden Syrup over your bald head, stick your wooden leg up your rear_end and go as a toffee apple.
Re: Tubelines - will they deliver the Jubilee Line « Result #42 on Nov 27, 2009, 6:10am »
I don't think there were ever many people who thought PPP was a good thing.
Problem was from day one you had a client (LU) that didn't want the PPP. When it was forced onto the client by central government, there was resistance.
Sadly as history has shown, it was also a very expensive way to bring money onto the network. The benefits to the infraco's will always be in the later years of the contract, when they are benefiting from the newer equipment, and bonuses as a result.
The Northern Line upgrade is a part of the PPP, so Tubelines must deliver it - or face fines. However I believe - or is it hope - that they'd have learnt the lessons of the Jubilee Line and not make so many mistakes.
The PPP, like PFI's, are a governments way to keep capital expenditure off the balance sheet. Strange that the government has saddled us with debts in the future, but is willing to splash billions of £££'s into the financial markets..... I do wonder if the HBOS money was spent on transport, what projects would we be having!
Can I just make a comment that I love the new map produced.
I honnestly think that its possibly the best map done officially for LT/TfL services for possibly 25 years, and this is why:
The map is clearly based on the London Connections map, which for a start always took a more 'no-nonsense' approach to the diagram, possibly due to the far greater volume of data needed. However, its been revised almost completely. The zone colours are gone, replaced by arguably 'cleaner' looking white and grey in alternate. Its been expanded where necessary to provide a greater working area; however unlike a lot of previous botch jobs (Delta junction, DLR, on the pocket map for example) its been mostly drafted so as to remove unsightly kinks from such alterations. There are, however, a few still present, but by and large a very good job. I also think its been drawn at a higher area than the London connections map previously (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/Tube-DLR-Trams-and-Train-Travelcard-zones-Map.pdf) further enhancing the cleaner look.
Moreover, the biggest change is pure genious. For the first time on a Beck descended map, NR lines are shown by terminal, rather than just as the sprawling white mess they previously were. Granted the ATOCs map showed this, but lacked the finesse of visual impact of a LT drawn diagram. This is a potentially very useful thing; since interchanges with BR/NR were introduced in the Hutchinson maps, they have never actually provided a useful purpose, but merely given the impression that they do. I wrote a bit about it on my website, www.ben4towers.com , if anyone fancies a read. Anyway, identifying which terminals NR trains run to now gives a purpose for the double arrows on the standard map. By colour coding the double arrows with the same key as used in this map, passengers now have some awareness of [i]what[/t] NR services are available as interchange, and at least one ultimate destination that the services reach.
I'll happily criticise any map thats produced for TfL till the cows come home, as I'm sure many other enthusiasts on here will also do, but I consider this to be a good step forward for design and relating back to its purpose. I hope that it isn't abused by some tape pusher in the bowles of the 'corporate vision' department.
Re: Lincoln Christmas Market « Result #44 on Nov 27, 2009, 12:44am »
Details of the extra services:
Thursday 3rd December 2009 (STEAM TRAIN)
Steam Dreams (WCR) from King’s Cross, Loco 60019 Bittern + POB + 12 coaches Arrive Lincoln 14:30, depart via Newark 17:45
Friday 4th December 2009
Rail Blue from Manchester Piccadilly, Class 47 x 2 + 12 coaches Arrival Lincoln via Gainsborough 1135, departs to Manchester Piccadilly 17:35
SRPS / DB Schenker from Linlithgow, Class 67 + 11 coaches Arrive Lincoln via Gainsborough 11:50, departs to King’s Cross via Newark 16:12
Orient Express / DB Schenker from London Victoria, Class 67 + 12 coaches Arrive Lincoln via Spalding 12:30, departs to London Victoria via Spalding 16:33
Additional Services – HST (8 cars) 12:47 arrival from St Pancras, departs to Nottingham 13:00 15:16 arrival from Nottingham, departs to Nottingham 15:42 17:55 arrival from Nottingham, departs to St Pancras 18:27
Saturday 5th December 2009
UK Railtours / DB Schenker from Woking Class 67 + 12 coaches Arrive Lincoln via Gainsborough 11:08, depart to Woking via Newark 16:17
Compass Tours / DB Schenker from Holyhead Class 47 x 2 + 13 coaches Arrive Lincoln via Gainsborough 11:35, departs to Holyhead via Gainsborough 15:50 Additional Services Meridian (5 cars) arrive 10:15 from St Pancras, depart Nottingham 10:56 HST (8 cars) arrive 12:01 from St Pancras, depart Nottingham 12:14 HST (8 cars) arrive 14:26, depart Nottingham 15:03 HST (8 cars) arrive 16:56, depart St Pancras 17:28
Sunday 6th December 2009 (STEAM TRAIN)
Railway Touring Company / Pacific’ A4 No. 60007‘Sir Nigel Gresley’ from London Kings Cross + 11 coaches Arrive Lincoln 13:15 from London Kings Cross Departs 17:15 to London Kings Cross
Joined: Nov 2001 Gender: Male Posts: 762 Location: Loughbrorough, Leicestershire
Lincoln Christmas Market « Result #45 on Nov 27, 2009, 12:01am »
Anyone know what EMT will be using to Lincoln for the Christmas Market this year? It's on their site that they are running extra trains, just doesn't say what.
Joined: Nov 2001 Gender: Male Posts: 762 Location: Loughbrorough, Leicestershire
Re: NX Stripped of it's East Anglia franchise « Result #47 on Nov 26, 2009, 9:41pm »
Don't know what to make of it, but it's interesting that there is a bit in Modern Railways relating to East Coast that mentions how FGW only clung onto the FGW franchise through a mess up by the DfT and some clever negotiating by First. Basically NX only tried on EC what First did with GW, yet instead of paying off it backfired on them. Really, given the economic climate NX was in a far more difficult position than First anyway.
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I just came back from Hong Kong and used their Octopus card, great idea IMO so glad that we're at least getting the Oyster on NR in future 
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